As I delve into more research for future campaign ideas, it has occurred to me that a useful tool may be to have a Forum "category" for regions similar in groupings to LG?
Currently we have:
Greyhawk- General Forums
Greyhawk- Rule Systems Forums
Greyhawk- Special Projects Forum
Forum Games & Online Play
The Oerth Journal Zine
Administration and Off Topic Forums
First,
NOT being anything that resembles a "web site guru" I don't know what this would undertake as far as implementation, or if there is a "tool" that senility and lack of "enlightenment" has not led me to find that would address.
Second,
Not trying to add anything to anyone's "plate", so happy to "help" as much as my limited knowledge brings.
Items / Topics that could be included there in would not be version specific but region specific, Maybe separation between Canon and Non-Canon? Or that could simply be managed in the Subjective titling.
The Wiki is certainly a useful tool, but really doesn't offer a place to "roundtable" ideas for campaign areas.
Just thought it might be a useful "sub-sort" that aspiring DMs might find helpful if their campaigns dominate a certain part of the Flanaess.
Thread moved to its proper place, and I also altered the scope of the thread to encompass any an all ideas for the new year.
Hmmm. For a while we have talked about getting together a Living Greyhawk area of the Articles section, basically a place where LG content could be archived(and such a place is actually there), but there hasn't been much of an outpouring of people coming forth to volunteer much information on Living Greyhawk. The discussion mainly came about from so many LG websites going defunct. Perhaps a lack of knowing what we were open to doing is part of why not so many people contacted us. A forum, with sub-forums for every region, however would be something that would pop up on search engines all of the time(not a bad thing), and so that might make people much more aware of what we would be willing to do. It will heavily be dependent on the community pushing it forward though. So, If we build it, will they come?
Also, setting this up on the forums is not a "grand task"- I could do it in a few hours, with most of that time being taken up by writing descriptions for the forum sections themselves. I could even break things up by Regional/Meta-regional groupings too. The Greyhawk community has been so resurgent of late(it will be a close thing, but this may end up being the busiest year for Canonfire! ever, based on page views) that I have a good amount of faith that people might actually jump into such a forum and really have at it- if enough word gets out that such a place actually exists to be used.
I think it is a pretty good idea. Add one more important thing to the list of things that I really need to go over with Gary this Thursday in GREYchat.
On second thought, I am going to move this from Canonfire! & GreyTalk Help and Feedback to General Discussion instead, as I want lots of people to see it and comment on both this idea, and to put forth more ideas of their own. I'll move it back later. _________________ - Moderator/Admin (in some areas)/Member -
Last edited by Cebrion on Thu Dec 29, 2011 9:41 pm; edited 2 times in total
On another note, today officially marks this as the busiest year for Canonfire! ever! W00t!!! _________________ - Moderator/Admin (in some areas)/Member -
How about a "all things magical" grouping? Sub set by Spells, Items ( ie rings, staffs, rods, etc), Weapons & Armors, unique / one of kind, Epic / artifact.
I haven't "fleshed it out" , but I'll Start with a "bobby". I would enter this as a "one of a kind".
History>
There once was a Grey Friar that was known by all in his hommlet. He sastained himself megerly, yet always had kind words for any that spoke to him, but seldom did he choose to initiate the conversations. Some saw him as a beggar, others as a hermit, but everyone agreed him harmless. Even with his meager funds, he always had something for a local stray dog. The dog, of a scottish terrier look, was nothing fearsome to be hold nor did he work or entertain for his meals. He was, however, a good & faithful companion, following the friar as he made his way through the day.
Sadly, one eve, the friar met with ill tidings... Brigands on the road, accosted and slew the old man. "Bobby" as the dog had been labeled, could do little to solve the grizzly scene. So he lay there next to his friend keeping vigil. No one could believe why any would do such an offense, yet none, really, tried to investigate further. All were content to agree how tragic it was, yet seem to let their day move on with out effort to exact any justice.
Every day, Bobby returned to the grave site along the road... and everyday he kept watch. Days, months, years went by, and everyday, Bobby returned to keep his friend company. One day an older ruddy ruff honed look of a man in a chapeau x (I used St. Cuthbert here) made his way by. He was so impressed and touched at Bobby's devotion, and knowing Bobby was in the twilight of his life, he imbued his "spirit of devotion".
Now special travelers devoted to St. Cuthbert may "find" Bobby along the road.
"Bobbys" appear as a common, small silver gray Scott Terrier. They really have no assignable attack value, but special abilities would include the following.
Hear Noise- as defined by spell
Aura of Bless- as defined by spell for any within 5ft of Bobby
PC cannot be surprised if Bobby with in 5ft
Endure Elements -as defined by spell.
and lastly "good nights rest" , negates chance of random dangerous encounter while sleeping.
Dm's determine the reasons for bobby's appearance and length of bobby's stay.
That seems more suitable as an Article submission rather than something that would need a dedicated forum for it. As such, the Articles section already has subsections for a variety of topics. Plus, there is the Readers Forum for discussion of Articles too(they go hand in hand).
Though I am generally more interested in things that the site does not already provide for, and that would therefore enrich the site further, keep the ideas coming! Do not be discouraged though- it is my job to play devil's advocate to a great degree, and you should do so too! _________________ - Moderator/Admin (in some areas)/Member -
That seems more suitable as an Article submission rather than something that would need a dedicated forum for it. As such, the Articles section already has subsections for a variety of topics. Plus, there is the Readers Forum for discussion of Articles too(they go hand in hand).
Though I am generally more interested in things that the site does not already provide for, and that would therefore enrich the site further, keep the ideas coming! Do not be discouraged though- it is my job to play devil's advocate to a great degree, and you should do so too!
Big C,
As always I enjoy your critiques and would take far more than a bit of constructive criticism to deter me.. I realize it is a thin and narrow "rope" you balance from to determine what goes where, and it would be just as easy to have too many choices as too few. For that part I SALUTE you and your efforts to maintain the "balance".
Putting it in as an Article admission was my first thought, but after the last (Alignments) was unsure (still) where some things would land. For me (perhaps mistakenly) I viewed the Articles Section as "more complete" items and the forums as more of a venue for discussion of items / ideas. Is this a correct perspective? (reasoning is we later relocated the "alignments" to a discussion.) And just to clarify, I was using "bobby" as an example of an idea that I don't think is "finished" but in need of feed back to make it more finished. It was from that perspective I was referring to a "thread" that would be "grouped" by magical types of items not particularly of one game mechanic set instead of having to comb the "tombs" (based on rule types) for that type "discussion"of idea element.
As to the "more interested" items, being the "FNG" ( as we used to say in the service hehe) I do try to bring a "view" of how the site is seen / used from that perspective. I have found, as in all things, that those that utilize something alot "know" where to look for the less obvious items where to the newbie some things are not as clear.
So with that,
How about "sub links" ( as you have Greytalk Chat, Dragons of "", Giants of"", Undead of"') we could add Rasgon's Monster compendium he has been constructing, or perhaps "Deities of Oerth" piece?
Lastly, "the "last seen" part, while passively interesting to me, is IMO real-estate that could be better used.
I think I follow the suggestion - I would like to see a forum based on region as well. I think it would have to be meta-region sized to make it work. I have a campaign set in and around Irongate so I am particularly interested in stuff around the Splintered Suns meta-region, so I could see myself checking out such a forum regularly (and hopefully contributing to it). However (devil's advocate voice) does the forum get sufficient traffic/posts to warrant this? Given it has a search engine, most often I go via that and search on "irongate" and it finds the relevant stuff.
I would be interested to see what others think.
Very pleased to hear it was a big year for Canonfire. It is my only link to my fantasy world of choice, other than the collection of dusty tomes on my shelves.
I think the Living Greyhawk guys had meta-regions set up. I've often thought it would be a good way to split the world up into hardcovers for when I buy the rights to Greyhawk and pay the guys here to write it up
Suggested Meta-regions (incomplete):
- Splintered Suns (old aerdy)
- Sheldomar Valley region (Keoland and surrounds)
- Baklunish West
- Iuz Empire and Border States (Fur, Iuz, Sld Lands)
- The North
I think I follow the suggestion - I would like to see a forum based on region as well. I think it would have to be meta-region sized to make it work...
...I think the Living Greyhawk guys had meta-regions set up. I've often thought it would be a good way to split the world up into hardcovers for when I buy the rights to Greyhawk and pay the guys here to write it up
Suggested Meta-regions (incomplete):
- Splintered Suns (old aerdy)
- Sheldomar Valley region (Keoland and surrounds)
- Baklunish West
- Iuz Empire and Border States (Fur, Iuz, Sld Lands)
- The North
You get the idea. Long live Greyhawk. RIP Gary.
That is basically the idea. I would most likely set up individual forums by Meta-region, but then have Regional sub-forums for each Meta-region. It would be easy to find exactly whatever section is relevant to the user. _________________ - Moderator/Admin (in some areas)/Member -
Putting it in as an Article admission was my first thought, but after the last (Alignments) was unsure (still) where some things would land. For me (perhaps mistakenly) I viewed the Articles Section as "more complete" items and the forums as more of a venue for discussion of items / ideas. Is this a correct perspective? (reasoning is we later relocated the "alignments" to a discussion.)
You assumption is correct. Articles are for things that are assumed to be "finished". However, even finished things can generate discussion; sometimes lots of it, sometimes not. The Readers Forum did not always exist, and it was in large part created to discuss Articles that generated a lot of comments(buried discussion is just not very good).
Dark_Lord_Galen wrote:
How about "sub links" ( as you have Greytalk Chat, Dragons of "", Giants of"", Undead of"') we could add Rasgon's Monster compendium he has been constructing, or perhaps "Deities of Oerth" piece?
Not bad. Could be workable; deities idea in particular. Rasgon's critters doesn't really suit that format all that well, and it reminds me of a similar thread on the The Infinite Layers of the Abyss. Lots of great stuff in both of those threads, and that content could be show-cased better. It just doesn't seem to suit the particular format in the left margin all that well, it being a listing of things and where they can be found. Some threads chock full of content could be compiled in pdf form though...
Dark_Lord_Galen wrote:
Lastly, "the "last seen" part, while passively interesting to me, is IMO real-estate that could be better used.
I mostly agree. I would much prefer a more visible "Who's On-Line *NOW*" section instead. I cannot count the number of times I have sent a PM off to somebody because I knew they were on-line at the same time I was. Knowing who has just left is not so useful. _________________ - Moderator/Admin (in some areas)/Member -
Rasgon's critters doesn't really suit that format all that well, and it reminds me of a similar thread on the The Infinite Layers of the Abyss. Lots of great stuff in both of those threads, and that content could be show-cased better. It just doesn't seem to suit the particular format in the left margin all that well, it being a listing of things and where they can be found. Some threads chock full of content could be compiled in pdf form though...
True, My thoughts were based on the number of hits the "features" column gets versus items listed in the thread. As you have pointed out there is ALOT of good information in both those threads, just thought it was a way to bring it to more "light" to the masses.... maybe the PDF is the compromise.
My last "suggestion" (for now*wink*) would be a section for NPC's. Again nothing version specific, but certainly a place to develop a NPC personality, background, motivations to flesh them and a game out with? I'm certain we all have had "interesting persona" grace our tables. Why not share them? May inspire whole subplots in someone else's campaign.
and with that, I defer the "magic mouth" reagents to others...
My last "suggestion" (for now*wink*) would be a section for NPC's. Again nothing version specific, but certainly a place to develop a NPC personality, background, motivations to flesh them and a game out with? I'm certain we all have had "interesting persona" grace our tables. Why not share them? May inspire whole subplots in someone else's campaign.
You mean like THIS, THIS, THIS, and especiallyTHIS? D'oh! That Articles section(and Postfest, depending on the topic) is designed exactly for what you just suggested. The Articles and Downloads sections basically feature everything other than stuff that goes in the Forums. The Articles section is made up of many sections with smaller offerings that one can view well enough on a web page. The Downloads section is similar, and generally features much larger offerings.
Some ideas might have already have been implemented(as in the above case) and people just don't realize what they are, or even know about them. I can't force people to actually look at the top bar tabs just below the CANONFIRE! header up there, so how much more obvious do things need to be made? That is a serious question that is needing some answers/suggestions, as this very same thing has happened before in another similar idea thread. We need people to look around the site more, as it is much more than just a forum. Should those top bar bits be moved to the left margin where "Features" are? That is just one idea.
For the most part, I will not be creating any additional forums for things which are already amply covered by Articles + Readers Forum. There could be more exceptions than the LG Region/Meta-Region idea though(which is a really big, really important idea I think), so keep thinking of ideas.
Though I am talking quite a bit about the Forums, please feel free to mention ideas regarding anything and everything about the site. _________________ - Moderator/Admin (in some areas)/Member -
You mean like THIS, THIS, THIS, and especiallyTHIS? D'oh! That Articles section(and Postfest, depending on the topic) is designed exactly for what you just suggested. The Articles and Downloads sections basically feature everything other than stuff that goes in the Forums. The Articles section is made up of many sections with smaller offerings that one can view well enough on a web page. The Downloads section is similar, and generally features much larger offerings.
Some ideas might have already have been implemented(as in the above case) and people just don't realize what they are, or even know about them. I can't force people to actually look at the top bar tabs just below the CANONFIRE! header up there, so how much more obvious do things need to be made?
YES,,, AND NO......
YES, that is A type of information to with I am referring.
NO, that is not the "idea" to which I was suggesting.
I DO UTILIZE THE OTHER LINKS AT THE TOP (though as you point out others may not) THE POINT I AM TRYING TO CONVEY IS OTHER THAN THE "Rogue's Gallery" AN ALTERNATIVE WOULD BE TO DO A FORUM SIMILAR TO GENERAL DISCUSSION. BUT, BY ADDING A "TOPIC" TO THE FORUM INDEX DEDICATED TO NPCS (under general or special projects I would think), IS ALL I WAS SUGGESTING. AND WITHIN THEM, SOMETHING LIKE WHAT IS BEING DONE WITH RASGON'S MONSTER LIST OR ANNAS MAPS COULD RESIDE.
Is it duplication, perhaps, but that "duplication" already exists in the afore mentioned topics. (ie monsters of greyhawk & cartography catagories in articles session), BUT THE DIFFERENCE IS, one is more finished (articles) the other is more discussion(forum thread). The KEY word in my original quote is "develop". I think there are many that may have ideas for an NPC but don't have them quite "fleshed out for Article or Game encounter" is more toward what I was referring.
I realize you could continue to capture this in the Greyhawk General Forum- General Discussions, but as other topics come thru, these would get lost in the mass an require combing through the "tombs" so to speak. Further, as you noted earlier in this thread, articles are "more published" finished items, where as I was referring to round-tabling ideas in more of a forum platform (similar to Annas posting looking for feedback and error correction).
I would also add that if the preferred medium for this is the "article method", you will either get great submissions (which there are already several), incomplete submissions ( which I assume require someone to proof / critique) or no submissions ( which some will choose due to writer block or fear of reject). By a forum platform some of the "bugs" and detail could be covered in mass by the community, and relieve (what I am sure is a heavy) load from the CF Admin BEFORE submitting as an article.
Hopefully that clarifies.
Lastly, I think this does shed light on a possible weakness with in the system. Other than the "features" block is there anywhere the submit article link exists? Many may not realize that you can submit to any topic not just those in "features". I realize there is a pull down giving the choices, but if they never enter "submit article" one wouldn't know that. Maybe add similar link in the "articles" selection (kinda like [ Go to Home | Select a New Topic ]? Though one would think since "features" block follows you from page to page it would be enough...
No, it is only in the Features section. I have never been all that pleased that the Features are small text, and so not all that obvious. So, that is one major thing that can(and should) change. Perhaps larger, hot-linked icons (like the GH Wiki has) for everything. And "Submit Article" is not really a Feature, and so it would be better put on the top bar next to "Articles" methinks. Perhaps put "Submit Download" in there too, next to "Downloads".
As to developmental topics, like developing NPCs, people can just start threads for that in the appropriate place, like Anna did for her maps. If it is just background, then it could go in WoG Discussion. If it is also going to be chock full of stat blocks/rules too, then it would best for it to go in the appropriate Rules System Forum. _________________ - Moderator/Admin (in some areas)/Member -
No, it is only in the Features section. I have never been all that pleased that the Features are small text, and so not all that obvious. So, that is one major thing that can(and should) change. Perhaps larger, hot-linked icons (like the GH Wiki has) for everything. And "Submit Article" is not really a Feature, and so it would be better put on the top bar next to "Articles" methinks. Perhaps put "Submit Download" in there too, next to "Downloads".
Sounds GOOD..... (A+ to hotlinks!). I agree on the "submit download" piece ( or would it be "Uploadyer Download") hehe..... That part does seem a bit cumbersome (to me anyway), but hey I've been told by some (insert exwife name here) that I have many troll like personality traits. hehe
And it would be timely too as I have several projects that would fit the need coming to completion the end of this month for your / CF Admin review & approval. (ie calendar, languages, just to name a few)
It may also be helpful to define preferred posting media. I know PDF is kinda universal, but limits who can "home brew" the downloaded info. Most people have MS Office products, but HTML, and java script are out there too.... Donno, that can get into another whole range of topic. (just rambling, still on my first cup of java)
Cebrion wrote:
As to developmental topics, like developing NPCs, people can just start threads for that in the appropriate place, like Anna did for her maps. If it is just background, then it could go in WoG Discussion. If it is also going to be chock full of stat blocks/rules too, then it would best for it to go in the appropriate Rules System Forum.
So let it be written...
Thanks for your patience and your efforts and if there is anything I can do to help, I am happy to serve.
Well, for that and to potentially serve as a repository for Living Greyhawk Region/Meta-Region info as well. The posting rules are going to be necessarily stringent as to what Living Greyhawk information can be posted though. Writing up the posting guidelines will take nearly as much time as it will to construct the forums themselves. This forum may very well end up being like a sword- either you can make use of it properly and impress people with your awesomeness, or you can screw around with it and chop your own head off. That will have everything to do with people being respectful of the IP/posting guidelines.
Enough of that though. On to more ideas! _________________ - Moderator/Admin (in some areas)/Member -
Construction has begun on the Region/Meta-Region forums. Pending the approval of the the format and posting guidelines, these forums will become active soon enough. They will be revealed when all is in place. Also, the forum categories will roughly double in size due to these additions, as there are quite a few Regions/Meta-Regions. _________________ - Moderator/Admin (in some areas)/Member -
There once was a Grey Friar that was known by all in his hommlet. He sastained himself megerly, yet always had kind words for any that spoke to him, but seldom did he choose to initiate the conversations. Some saw him as a beggar, others as a hermit, but everyone agreed him harmless. Even with his meager funds, he always had something for a local stray dog. The dog, of a scottish terrier look, was nothing fearsome to be hold nor did he work or entertain for his meals. He was, however, a good & faithful companion, following the friar as he made his way through the day.
Sadly, one eve, the friar met with ill tidings... Brigands on the road, accosted and slew the old man. "Bobby" as the dog had been labeled, could do little to solve the grizzly scene. So he lay there next to his friend keeping vigil. No one could believe why any would do such an offense, yet none, really, tried to investigate further. All were content to agree how tragic it was, yet seem to let their day move on with out effort to exact any justice.
Every day, Bobby returned to the grave site along the road... and everyday he kept watch. Days, months, years went by, and everyday, Bobby returned to keep his friend company. One day an older ruddy ruff honed look of a man in a chapeau x (I used St. Cuthbert here) made his way by. He was so impressed and touched at Bobby's devotion, and knowing Bobby was in the twilight of his life, he imbued his "spirit of devotion".
Now special travelers devoted to St. Cuthbert may "find" Bobby along the road.
"Bobbys" appear as a common, small silver gray Scott Terrier. They really have no assignable attack value, but special abilities would include the following.
Hear Noise- as defined by spell
Aura of Bless- as defined by spell for any within 5ft of Bobby
PC cannot be surprised if Bobby with in 5ft
Endure Elements -as defined by spell.
and lastly "good nights rest" , negates chance of random dangerous encounter while sleeping.
Dm's determine the reasons for bobby's appearance and length of bobby's stay.
Going slightly off-topic here, but I really love this and would like to see it made into a full article. I love using real world folklore and history in my GH stuff, and love the story of Greyfriars Bobby. Please work this up into an article! It also reminds me of Saint Guinefort, not thematically, but in having a dog who is something like a saint. In fact this makes me think a cool subject for a post-fest, or even just a working thread like rasgon's monsters thread would be "saints of GH."
I would also like to add this is perfect for greytalk topics as well. So the threads and forums work well but greytalk is also a good place for it. After all many of my posts started as greytalk topics.
Going slightly off-topic here, but I really love this and would like to see it made into a full article. I love using real world folklore and history in my GH stuff, and love the story of Greyfriars Bobby. Please work this up into an article! It also reminds me of Saint Guinefort, not thematically, but in having a dog who is something like a saint. In fact this makes me think a cool subject for a post-fest, or even just a working thread like rasgon's monsters thread would be "saints of GH."
@Smillan, Thanks, glad you enjoyed the concept, & like you, I enjoy tying "real-world elements" into campaign settings. It seems to add depth and as they say "the truth is often stranger than fiction".
I will endeavor to "polish" this into a more complete "article fashion" but would happily take any feedback / input that would add color to it in a "greyhawk fashion" before submitting to the ethereal powers to be.
argon wrote:
I would also like to add this is perfect for greytalk topics as well. So the threads and forums work well but greytalk is also a good place for it. After all many of my posts started as greytalk topics.
@Argon, I do agree 100% to that! and I can certainly be one to tell all reading that the reception / camaraderie is well received. And it also certainly is a great "watering hole" to "grow / groom" thoughts and ideas. Lastly it would certainly not be the intent to redirect use of that resource in favor of a "new" thread.
How about a place to list pending article submissions? Thought here is would give everyone an idea of backlog, and potential submissions under scrutiny. Would not have to be much more than maybe a submitted date and topic (or the brief hook). Could also help those submitting as to the status of their submissions. (once it goes in its kinda a dark tunnel till it emerges out the other side)
And or a request / need article spot? Thought here is akin to an open items / "wants" list. Might inspire some to take up the quill if they know what is in demand so to speak. I realize this could be captured under the general spot in forum, but this would give the Admin (aka u) a place to capture all request elements and "check them off" as they are taken and acted on with in the article / forum tools.
Just more ramblings from the Dark and Dusty places of the world below.
DLG
I think that the "Upcoming Articles" spotlight is a particularly good idea.
As to the other idea of posting a list of ideas and then ticking them off as they get done, that one resonates less with me(but only the format really). The reason for this is that many people have many different takes on the very same topic. That could be due to them using various eras of published background material, something they made whole cloth, and/or that has been influenced by various editions of the game rules. One topic where this has been more evident than others is deities/faiths/churches. There have been many different takes on those particular topics, and all perspectives are welcome. Accordingly, there could be a lot of variety among six article submissions on the very same subject, but we would potentially lose out of more perspectives if we tick the topic off the list after getting the first submission on it.
Some inspiration is already up, and they are the subsections of the Articles section itself. I would like to add some expanded descriptions in the headings of those subsections though, similar to what we do with descriptions of each of the subforums. If somebody wants to know if any idea has been done to death, they can just look at the Article section to see what has been written about. We can surely be more proactive about a letting people know of Postfests too, or on slow news week post a list of ideas for Article submissions on the Canonfire! Crier.
So, the second idea is a good one too. I just think it should be implemented in a little bit different way. I am very interested in reading peoples' opinions on this so as to see which form of presentation people would like the most- forum, blog announcement, some other idea, all of the above, etc. _________________ - Moderator/Admin (in some areas)/Member -
Last edited by Cebrion on Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:08 am; edited 3 times in total
As to the other idea of posting a list of ideas and then ticking them off as they get done, that one resonates less with me(but only the format really).
Agreed, the method didn't sit well with me either, but couldn't think of another way to manage it.
Cebrion wrote:
One topic where this has been more evident that others is deities/faiths/churches. There have been many different takes on those topics, and all are perspectives are welcome. Accordingly, there could be a lot of variety among six article submissions on the very same subject, but we would potentially lose out of more perspectives if we tick the topic off the list after getting the first submission on it.
True and yes that method does support more dialogue than to have a "done / Not done"
Cebrion wrote:
I would like to add some expanded descriptions in the headings of those subsections though, similar to what we do with descriptions of each of the subforums. If somebody wants to know if any idea has been done to death, they can just look at the Article section to see what has bee written about.
Right EXACTLY WHERE I was thinking
Cebrion wrote:
We can surely be more proactive about a letting people know of Postfests too, or on slow news week post a list of ideas for Article submissions on the Canonfire! Crier.
Great on the Postfest. Especially for those of us less skilled with the quill. Admittedly I dodged the last one as I don't utilize a lot of Psionics (except in certain monster types). Though with more prep I may have took a stab at it. (you know how us dark guys are about taking stabs)
As for utilizing Post list ideas as a "filler" I think that's a great fit. Certainly doesn't have to be something chiseled into the wall every day. This might have a "box" aka focal point, like article submissions, that you could "collect ideas", sort and summarize from for the filler posting. just an expansion on the thought. Of course the down side of that it puts more on the "admin" side to filter through than to just have a "bucket".
Fixed a bunch of my typos. Oh no, I never make typos.
Mortellan will handle much of the front page updates, though a few others likely will too. _________________ - Moderator/Admin (in some areas)/Member -
I am not in favor of more topics/sections in the forums. I primarily read General Discussion, and I'm not going to go delving into splintered subsectional discussions. Talk about the "tombs". Realistically, most of the sections that seem to be proposed here would be lucky to get 10 posts a month.
If you have an article submission under development, there are already a slew of forums to post it under. If it's rule-specific, there are 6 rule-oriented forums. There's the Reader's Workshop, and as always, General Discussion.
Creating a siloed thread to hold NPC submissions from multiple authors is going to cause confusion (what if it's an NPC in a magic item article? What if I start a different thread?) Anna's thread works because it's Anna's stuff.
As far as a "proposed article" list -- the Oerth Journal has had one for about 15 years now, and no one has ever written an article from it. Make of that what you will.
O my sweet baguettes. I see the new Forty-Thousand Forums protocol has already gone into effect. For the love of Lendor, please move those to the bottom so I don't have to scroll down 3 pages to see the OJ forum?
I think having the ability to "double click" the header and collapse or expand the listing is sufficient to provide access to all listings.
My two pp.
Oh look, clicking on a section header closes -everything- (which means if I want to see two sections they have to take turns), and it resets every time I exit the forums (which means it actually becomes even more annoying!) Hurrah!
Not.
I get the whole LG experiment. I even agree with it (as an experiment). But it should be below the established forums, or made more discrete.
It seems someone loves the new forums. I think the new forums for the most part are to encourage LGG fans to chime in here. I don't really see a big issue with the scrolling down a little further for some of the forums. I think we should see where things end up depending on traffic.
I also thought that the extra scrolling was inconvenient at first, but then I realized that most of the other, larger, forums for other hobbies I frequent have even more subforums listed on their main forums page and require that I scroll quite a bit. I just wasn't used to having to do it on this particular site, so it seemed odd. Now, I don't mind it at all.
Additionally, like Argon, I'm excited about the possibilities of these new regional forums. I really want to see what people will offer and hope that it will make it much easier to find information I need/want from specific regions.
Oh look, clicking on a section header closes -everything- (which means if I want to see two sections they have to take turns), and it resets every time I exit the forums (which means it actually becomes even more annoying!) Hurrah!
Don't worry Galen, I'm not going to darken your door with my noncornformist opinion. I realize my thoughts, dissenting from yours as they do, are unwelcome in this thread, and I appreciate your snarky little italics.
I just skimmed down that folder list, btw, glad to see so many forums taking off! Hope this wild growth continues![/i]
Come off it fellas. We're all friends here. There's no call for making light of someone else's opinion and there's no call for getting defensive either.
I was weak and posted my last new topic in the General Discussion forum when I should have posted it in the Keoland Forum. I was afraid it wouldn't get many responses there and needed the answer to my question quickly. As I said, that was weak of me and I regret making that decision. I'm excitedly looking forward to seeing lots of region/national information being posted in places where it can be easily found. I have no problem with giving these new forums a chance to get started.
Nellisir's concerns are valid, so no one should be making any derogatory statements about them (though disagreement is fine). At the same time, we're all grown-ups (even the young pup, Rumek ) and don't need to lash out disrespectfully if we feel we've been treated with less respect than we're due.
Don't worry Galen, I'm not going to darken your door with my noncornformist opinion. glad to see so many forums taking off! Hope this wild growth continues![/i]
Humm as for darkening my door that may prove difficult, as I always seem to tend toward dark hallways where seldom a shadow be cast.
I do however, think you misunderstand, my suggestion at a "double click" and then a redirect thread were to acknowledge your concerns; offer a solution; and then prose a place where your "nonconformity" could be heard by those that could make such a change.
To better understand your position, I have since read the entire OJ thread, and found it insightful, and informational. I would also make mention notice of your presence there well back to its beginning "(going back into the late volume I issues when Nellisir and Rick LaRue were the principal editors of the OJ)". It was also noted, sporadically in that thread, of a separate webpage dedicated to OJ (guess that died on the vine? Maybe better revisited here since this is a thread on site changes?)
However, the original intent of this thread is not to promote one idea ( ie the meta-regions), but to round-table all. I simply was trying to redirect the thread back toward its original purpose and acknowledge your "nonconformity" vote with a solution.
Personally, I like nonconformity.. (as long as its fact based) it brings out for better debate, and innovation.
cebrion wrote:
Enough of that though. On to more ideas!
In closing, I will leave a candle lit in hopes you will continue to cast a shadow my way dear Nellisir.
I get the whole LG experiment. I even agree with it (as an experiment). But it should be below the established forums, or made more discrete.
I agree. Apparently phpBB does have a Subforum feature, but it has not been implemented on Canonfire! Once Gary gets it implemented, whenever that will be, the LG forums will condense into a single forum main page "Living Greyhawk Forums" header, which when clicked upon will bring one to the fully expanded Meta-regions sections. I may do this with the rules-based forums too, as that will make the main forum page sections more viewable; maybe a few other categories too. Not sure yet, but having to scroll down a bit or left-click once don't exactly require much effort. As you say though, things shouldn't be buried in too many layers. _________________ - Moderator/Admin (in some areas)/Member -
I feel like I am wasting my time posting my links or articles in the campaign journal section. I actuall have STOPPED posting in that section.
This whole META REGION forum section is making it that the forums below it are getting ignored, I dont even bother to scroll down to view them and I am running a 24" monitor. So I can tell you that someone with anything smaller that a 20" wont be either.
Create another website for the META REGIONS or better yet just use the WIKI and have one subforum for it.
I agree. Apparently phpBB does have a Subforum feature, but it has not been implemented on Canonfire! Once Gary gets it implemented, whenever that will be, the LG forums will condense into a single forum main page "Living Greyhawk Forums" header, which when clicked upon will bring one to the fully expanded Meta-regions sections...
or better yet just use the WIKI and have one subforum for it.
that's an interesting angle.. but wouldn't it require everyone having write access to the wiki? as it is set up? Doesn't everyone have to specifically have to request access to do that? In a forum setting that may be counter productive. Though, if in the Wiki it would be a great cross-reference...
But admittedly I'm am ignorant as to how the wiki is maintained.... as I generally use it only as a reference tool.
But you also have an awesome blog so I can still get my campaign update fix that way as well. I would agree after a few weeks the LG forums do require a lot of extra scrolling. Luckily there is a fix for that. So maybe some time soon this will be a thing of the past and the LG forums will be condensed more so they don't make scrolling down such a bothersome task.
I was actual wondering if my Bissel campaign updates should be moved to the LG Bissel forum. Not that I'm using all the information contained from the LG Bissel triads, just I wanted to make it seem like there was some Bissel info in there. It looks real empty.
Hopefully we can get some ex triad members to start posting in these forums. Then maybe they won't seem like a chore when scrolling past them.
Hopefully we can get some ex triad members to start posting in these forums.
@ All, but based on Argon's query
Is there a place / or method that that could be "done" or do we wait and hope that they "just happen along and find CF and those areas?
Also, as many are less than pleased with the current arrangement, I am reluctant to bring up that the "lists" are not complete. I would think there would also be sub-categories in the appropriate regions for :
Sterrich (unless id as grouped with Geoff, Keoland, or The Yeomary)
Wild Coast- Pomarj, Celene
The Wilderness- Amedio, Sea of Dust, Black Ice
The Barbarian Hordes- Tiger/ Wolf Nomads, Ice/Frost/Snow barbarians
There are other examples, but as I seem to be the only one with the "aye vote" I am reluctant to suggest adding to a list that many feel is already too long.
In debated defense of it however, I personally don't see that scrolling down is a show stopper. There are MANY other sites that one has to scroll further or go SEVERAL layers deep to find anything. And not to take away anything from the threads below "the List", is it not the purpose of the "forums section" to debate, round-table and grow ideas, in mass? I would think that "we" would wish to supply the masses (those that may not frequent the site as often as "members") to be able to find useful data quickly based on their own campaign flavors. And by finding such, they in fact become "members" (just as I did) and even become Staff (as many of you now are) because they have found a useful site they wish to become "henchmen" with.
The threads below "the list", while very useful, are not the primary source of traffic nor contribution from the masses. There are FAR more Posts and even GREATER reader review from the combination of General, Rules, & now Region than OJ, Online & Admin.
Now if it is the intent to "build the Ezine" as the primary piece, then I am sorry as I miss understood the "big picture goal". As I tend to be a very "left brained" engineer I always think with the end in mind and work back from that. My position has always been to make the most complete "one stop shopping" for all things greyhawk since it has been orphaned by those who "own" it.
SO I close with this.
All of you, (Gary, Cebrion, MS, Argon, DH, Nellisir, Rasgon, and I'm certain others that elude me this late hour) are our Circle of 8 or Conclave of Wizards & Knights (as you will) The most we the masses can do is supply and support.
Though Cebrion acted on the execution, it was (IMO) my comments that he acted on.
I read in much of your collective OJ postings how you can't create a viable monthly or quarterly component due to lack of resources and or participation. (which IMO is regrettable, because it is great work and would be improved if it could find stable ground in regular timing issuance)
By creating a more complete "raw material source", via the forums, does that not create a better well to drink from? Is it not the best way, to recruit more support, by having a deeper well to draw from?
And with that I yield to the faith and trust we the mass bestow to you the honored Circle.
Don’t get me wrong I think that having the META REGION AREA is needed, as whole I think that the information stored on CANONFIRE needs to be more structured.
BUT I do think that a FORUM structure is the wrong approach I believe that a WIKI is better suited option.
What I would propose is two WIKI's one that few have access to so that order is maintained and a semblance of order is maintained WRT to layout, grammar, spelling etc.
Then we have a secondary WIKI where everyone that wishes to contribute to has access via his on logon details.
Then maybe a SharePoint server would maybe be a better solution where it would track the user and changes made, that is something I could setup and host of one of my won servers if required.
There are multitude of different options that can be used. Google Sites, Google Documents (shared) It is matter of planning and taking the right approach going forward.
I would also suggest that Canonfire Website be backed up to an offsite location or replicated to another server or ghosted. These is crucial to circumvent loss of data should the site corrupt or be lost.
Again I have the means to do this, as I am sure Gary has.
BUT I do think that a FORUM structure is the wrong approach I believe that a WIKI is better suited option.
Humm I can see the logic on one hand yet on the other a forum is the closest thing you could have for a symbiotic discussion short of an IM or Chat situation (such as Greytalk). So I can see the benifits and pitfalls of both. Like you it is a question of structure and overall "business model goals" that we hope to achieve.
DarkHerald wrote:
What I would propose is two WIKI's one that few have access to so that order is maintained and a semblance of order is maintained WRT to layout, grammar, spelling etc. Then we have a secondary WIKI where everyone that wishes to contribute to has access via his on logon details.
Interesting, but as I am more old school (bulletin board hehe) what are the security risks and pitfalls to protect everyone's hard work and effort? I don't mind the EXTRA step of having to enter Oerth if that is what it takes to keep the site secure, no more than I mind to scroll a bit if that provides a way to separate the regions into more user accessible elements based on a campaign flavor.
DarkHerald wrote:
Then maybe a SharePoint server would maybe be a better solution where it would track the user and changes made, that is something I could setup and host of one of my won servers if required.
There are multitude of different options that can be used. Google Sites, Google Documents (shared) It is matter of planning and taking the right approach going forward.
True and good ideas all. But would that bring the site "down for a transition? or to mirror? Personally I'm not well versed enough to know the "behind the scenes" elements that are in place to create the "window dressings" we now have. As I have read here, seems there are limits to the depth of thread and Big C and Gary are at work to make even other options. I suppose time would tell, but you bring to light a valid point as to maybe the "Conclave" should take an accountancy of resources available / needed to grow CF/Greyhawk? I probably think it may be over stepping my bounds to get into "conclave" decision processes. But as mentioned in other threads.. that is just my "orifice talking" hehe
DarkHerald wrote:
I would also suggest that Canonfire Website be backed up to an offsite location or replicated to another server or ghosted. These is crucial to circumvent loss of data should the site corrupt or be lost.
Again I have the means to do this, as I am sure Gary has.
I have often wondered on this part, as I have extensively researched elements for my own revived campaign. I have found numerous site links elsewhere (and mentioned here), of good reference material, only to find it lost to the abyss, as the link is no longer viable and the information lost. I would be despaired, if to awake one day to find the shortcut to CF, and the site no longer existed.. Would be a great well run dry.
The new regional forums are dreadful. It reminds me of the old Pied Piper board, with its bajillion forums and no discussion. I really like the idea of making a home for LG and encouraging discussion, but sifting through dozens of forums to see if someone posted something interesting today sucks.
We're hardly bursting with discussion as it is and certainly not enough to warrant thirty-three new forums. Our main WoG forum only had/has a handful of threads being discussed on any given day and for years it was very convenient to go see all of the hot topics with one click.
Dividing GH into a multitude of regions worked for LG because they had thousands of gamers and a corporate sponsor! Applying its model to a forum with a hundred regulars is ridiculous.
Something should be done for LG, maybe a wiki, but the new forums are a verschlimmbesserung - an improvement for the worse. A subforum would help organize the current mess, but won't fix the problem.
Something should be done for LG, maybe a wiki, but the new forums are a verschlimmbesserung - an improvement for the worse. A subforum would help organize the current mess, but won't fix the problem.
Alle Sachen können verbessert werden.......(I like the German touch Vestcoat .. are you a Perrinlander in disguise?)
I don't see a "mess" but actually the first step in "organizing" as you put it.. The "mess" was having to comb through hundreds if not thousands of threads of discussion, posts, etc. to find elements that would pertain to the part of the GH World you wish to find. I don't know how many times I have heard... "I know there is a thread discussing this somewhere". This seems a reasonable first step. I would compare it to "why" don't we just have one "rules forum" and sort through that which we need to fill a question around 2e or 4e game rule interpretations for instance?
All of this debate would seem to say, What is the End Goal ?
>If it is to be a repository of LG glorydays and treasured info, then Certainly a Wiki would be better served...
>If it is to be a discussion on where those regions could move forward past canon and published works (as I am aware there is not much past say 585-591) but in line with the theme of the past, then IMO that requires discussion. And is that not the definition of "forum"?
But even this round-tabled debate serves us all.
And I thank your position and input.
May it guide those with the "purple" power. (or is it red now... seems like I read that somewhere)hehe
but sifting through dozens of forums to see if someone posted something interesting today sucks.
As this was Originally intended as a "new ideas" thread that has developed into a good debate on future directions of structure, I would divert slightly to this....
Meant to chyme in on this on the last, But vestcoat does bring a good idea to light.
Is it possible to have a link that would list all the current posts over a range?
Then the user could set a range to a day or two or week (could see where a search of unlimited ends would overwhelm the search criteria).
Right now I utilize a search based on my own posts, and other favorite authors but the new or less frequent I have to glean via the New field along the side of the forums lists.
The your posts & unanswered kinda do this but not if the thread has replied elements. (it seems)
Be careful you might lose your Paladin status! I understand the frustration of all the extra scrolling, but I think we need some more time before we doom the new forums. I would say if you have any questions related to LG post them in the proper forum. ie: What was King Belvor first name in LG and who was his father?
DLG,
Be careful you might lose your Paladin status!
Now what kind of Paladin would I be if I were in fear of traveling where angel's fear to tread? Besides, as they say in Alagaesia "One part brave, Three parts fool".
As my English professor always had said, I loved a good debate too much. I hope to kindle such a fire that all might see and be warmed. And one only gets a good fire by stirring the embers to flame.
It has come to my attention (because of recently trying to do it) that there is no means to "upload" a file only to link one to a web location. How difficult is it to create a "spot" to capture uploaded materials for review and eventual posting in say the "downloads" shortcut on the header?
The Lgg forums are a good idea. Though after this length of time I think we could consolidate the forums into one LGG forum. Open the forum and then discuss your region. Hopefully, it expands after some time. I Just think some gems may need some additional polishing. Though that takes time.
The Lgg forums are a good idea. Though after this length of time I think we could consolidate the forums into one LGG forum. Open the forum and then discuss your region. Hopefully, it expands after some time. I Just think some gems may need some additional polishing. Though that takes time.
Just a "Resurrection" bump on this thread as the New Year is upon us.
I still am of the opinion that this would be a good tool, but "we", currently, are comfortable with the arrangements as they are.
The LGG Forum Sub-categories seem better suited to a repository of former LGG materials and reduced (as Argon suggests).
First, most newer members are not familiar with the LGG subsections and so questions around differing regions still appear in the general discussions. ie the most recent being questions about ToEE and the Horned Society just to name a few.
While it would require a change in the community culture to list these in their proper regions (thus making it a better regional research tool in the long run) the current choice is general it would seem.
It is my continued hope we would make these categories not only a reference for former LGG materials, but a stomping ground for new ideas dedicated to those regions specifics, thus aiding DMs with interest in a specific region.
On to 2013 New Ideas
Perhaps a forum listing for support software's under "special projects"?
In today's electronic age, there are lots of software to support the gamer. I realize that there have been submissions of various spreadsheets, etc. this could be one place to gather all in one spot and to discuss various other commercial ones, such as Herolab, D20pro, Fantasy Grounds, etc. _________________ It is by will alone I set my die in motion.....It is by gaming that thoughts acquire speed.....The hands acquire shaking..... The shaking becomes a warning......It is by will alone I set my die in motion....
I know this might add to the Administrators' responsibilities, but I wonder if it would be a good policy to allow regional queries to begin in the General Discussion forum, then, when they have remained unattended long enough to drop off the first page, they could be moved to the forum for the appropriate region. Thus, while they are a current hot topic, they stay where the greatest number of members/visitors can see them, but when they are old news, anyone looking for such esoteric bits of information will know just what regional forum to go looking for them in.
Something similar: Canonfire! grognards could suggest to new ones the appropriate forum for their question -- after it's originally posted, of course -- and then after this suggestion was made and an appropriate length of time went by -- so the original poster could "see" the suggestion -- the Admin could move the post to the appropriate forum.
Agreed...We can't put all the burden on Big C... we could help mediate that change in the community...
As I tell my players all the time
Silence is Consent
The Lgg forums are a good idea. Though after this length of time I think we could consolidate the forums into one LGG forum. Open the forum and then discuss your region. Hopefully, it expands after some time. I Just think some gems may need some additional polishing. Though that takes time.
Just a "Resurrection" bump on this thread as the New Year is upon us.
I still am of the opinion that this would be a good tool, but "we", currently, are comfortable with the arrangements as they are.
The LGG Forum Sub-categories seem better suited to a repository of former LGG materials and reduced (as Argon suggests).
First, most newer members are not familiar with the LGG subsections and so questions around differing regions still appear in the general discussions. ie the most recent being questions about ToEE and the Horned Society just to name a few.
While it would require a change in the community culture to list these in their proper regions (thus making it a better regional research tool in the long run) the current choice is general it would seem.
It is my continued hope we would make these categories not only a reference for former LGG materials, but a stomping ground for new ideas dedicated to those regions specifics, thus aiding DMs with interest in a specific region.
Unfortunately they will stay as they are; as to arrange them as we really want to will require switching from php.nuke to something else altogether. That means a total rebuilding of the site, which is probably what will happen...whenever Gary gets the wild hare to do so.
Dark_Lord_Galen wrote:
Argon Sat Jul 14, 2012 wrote:
On to 2013 New Ideas
Perhaps a forum listing for support software's under "special projects"?
In today's electronic age, there are lots of software to support the gamer. I realize that there have been submissions of various spreadsheets, etc. this could be one place to gather all in one spot and to discuss various other commercial ones, such as Herolab, D20pro, Fantasy Grounds, etc.
Canonfire! has purposely not had advertisements for such things, though adding advertisements has been discussed. If advertisements were to be added to the site, it would be for the purpose of revenue collection to pay for server fees and any other operational costs. _________________ - Moderator/Admin (in some areas)/Member -
Unfortunately they will stay as they are; as to arrange them as we really want to will require switching from php.nuke to something else altogether. That means a total rebuilding of the site, which is probably what will happen...whenever Gary gets the wild hare to do so.
I recall there was some discussions around that and that there was a "layering/ sub-category levels" limit? Personally I'm good with it, just at a loss as to how to lure those old LGG groupies back to the nest?
Cebrion wrote:
Canonfire! has purposely not had advertisements for such things, though adding advertisements has been discussed. If advertisements were to be added to the site, it would be for the purpose of revenue collection to pay for server fees and any other operational costs.
Though my intent was not going in that direction (more on that in a bit) If it were a simple way to generate revenue for site support,,,, Great!
I was referring more to a "consumer report" rendition, as you point out the site has remained "neutral" to all of that and as such, many could prose constructive opinions, critiques, experiences they may have or way to implement those elements in-support of their GH game. This may help others in determining an informed choice or overcome some obstical with a fresh perspective. It would not have to be limited to just commercial softwares. Person A may have an app that randomizes dice rolls, etc. or person B may need a dwarvish to Elvish translator,, etc It could be a starting off point & converse starter for the repository of electronic support files.
my 2cp
Lol! We're all such incredible nerds. Our love of gaming will never be accepted by mainstream society.
SirXaris
SirXaris wrote:
What? I thought we were "mainstream!?"
Maybe alittle!!
Actually my wife would say its my Anal-retentive nature showing again....
As for the rest of the world... through the "miricale" that is U-tube, Americas' (or Britian for that matter) got talent, singing , blah blah, or the pinicale of hidden geekdom FANTASY FOOTBALL, I've always felt they all have their "inner- PC" hiding somewhere.. it is up to us to bring them to the light!!!
...Unfortunately they will stay as they are; as to arrange them as we really want to will require switching from php.nuke to something else altogether...
-Hmmm... that php.nuke thing is the gift that keeps giving, huh?
Yes, it would seem so. php.nuke is easy to use, but there are some areas where it is lacking. At this point it is getting dated, so a full-on site revamp is probably what will end up happening (hopefully sooner rather than later) .
As to various products, apps, etc., it would be fine to review such things in the Published Material Reviews & Discussion forum, and perhaps we could change that forum name to "Published Material/Product Reviews & Discussion" instead to highlight that aspect of it. _________________ - Moderator/Admin (in some areas)/Member -
Yit would be fine to review such things in the Published Material Reviews & Discussion forum, and perhaps we could change that forum name to "Published Material/Product Reviews & Discussion" instead to highlight that aspect of it.
I like the idea of Meta-Regions with a sub-category for specific countries.
I have some Living Greyhawk material to share. One question though, are we permitted to share Living Greyhawk material on this site or does it all belong to WotC and we are not allowed to make it open to everyone?
P.S. The region directly west of Greyhawk should not have the name of Iuz in the title -- that guy is just plain evil. It should be called "The Benevolent zone of Furyondy and some other minor players". _________________ Richard Di Ioia (aka Longetalos)
I have some Living Greyhawk material to share. One question though, are we permitted to share Living Greyhawk material on this site or does it all belong to WotC and we are not allowed to make it open to everyone?
It is my understanding that WotC owns all the material for the first two years of Living Greyhawk. After that, they allowed the authors to keep the rights to the works. Therefore, as long as the authors give permission, years 3-8 are free material. You'll have to ask someone else where to get that legal verification, however. That's just what I've heard on this website.
Quote:
P.S. The region directly west of Greyhawk should not have the name of Iuz in the title -- that guy is just plain evil. It should be called "The Benevolent zone of Furyondy and some other minor players".
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(still) 
As to the "more interested" items, being the "FNG" ( as we used to say in the service hehe) I do try to bring a "view" of how the site is seen / used from that perspective. I have found, as in all things, that those that utilize something alot "know" where to look for the less obvious items where to the newbie some things are not as clear.
) and don't need to lash out disrespectfully if we feel we've been treated with less respect than we're due.
