Canonfire! Forums-viewtopic-Enchantment/Charm Penalties to Unconscious/Sleeping Targets?

A new question:

Do unconscious or sleeping victims accrue a saving throw penalty to enchantment/charm spells that affect the mind (such as Charm Person or Monster and the like)?

It comes down to this: is the victim's unconscious mind 'strong' or 'alert' enough to resist the effects of these spells to avoid a saving throw penalty, or does it require an active or conscious mind?

If a saving throw penalty is leveled, what is the rating?

-Lanthorn, the Active Inquisitor

Sun Jan 24, 2016 8:19 pm

There's no active resistance, so if the spell specifies the creature must actively resist it, or has a bonus/penalty based on actively resisting, then that applies. If the spell just has a saving throw with no modifiers, then being unconscious has no effect. An unconscious character might not be aware of being targeted of such a spell if the description indicates they might notice if the saving throw is successful. I don't see any reason the Charm spells would be more likely to affect a sleeping character, though.

Jeff

Mon Jan 25, 2016 3:40 am

I say that you may make a special determination, as the DM, based upon the PC's personality and alignment.

I say that because I know of many instances in my own dreams wherein I specifically refused to act in a certain manner because it was contrary to my nature and moral character to act that way in real life. Usually, such situations in my dreams would wake me, but not always. I would just remember the instance after waking and marvel that, even in my dreams, I wouldn't act that way.

So, take that anecdotal evidence as you will and see if it adds spice to your game.

SirXaris
_________________
SirXaris' Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/SirXaris?ref=hl

Tue Jan 26, 2016 2:37 am

Regular saving throw.
_________________
- Moderator/Admin (in some areas)/Member -

Sun Jan 31, 2016 8:17 am

Sun Jan 31, 2016 11:05 am

So, what are people's opinions regarding magic resistance in this situation? After all, elves do have the innate resistance to charm type spells.

My thought on this is, the resistance would still apply. My understanding of how magic resistance works is that it is there unless the character willingly drops it.

Sun Jan 31, 2016 11:51 am

Magic resistance always applies unless the creature willingly surrenders that innate ability.

-Lanthorn

Thu May 05, 2016 1:42 pm

Attacks vs sleeping or held characters automatic hits. Spells too. MR does kick in though as this is innate.

Thu May 05, 2016 4:16 pm