My PCs recently traveled to a demi-plane in the Ethereal where they met a fellow planar traveler from Toril. As a result of their continued interaction, I’ve delved into Spelljammer to better understand the cosmology. Spelljamming from Oerth has always been quietly active in the back of my mind, but nothing my PCs have encountered, so I hadn’t thought too much about it until now. I kind of wish I hadn’t.
I like that you can fly to the moons. I like that, if you fly far enough, you can reach Toril. I like (and need) Oerth and Toril to be on the same Prime Material Plane, sharing the same Ethereal.
I think I understand that the whole concept of parallel Primes has been replaced by crystal spheres. I don’t wholly agree, since parallel Primes are infinite and crystal spheres are not, but whatever. Why oh why, though, was teleportation nerfed? What happened to, “Distance is not a factor”? Why can I teleport without error from Greyhawk to Dis but not to Waterdeep?
Make it make sense!
I don't have the answer. I think there are portals on both Oerth and Toril that let characters travel directly between those worlds. Maybe it is a Planescape rule you're talking about.
5th edition Spelljammer eliminated crystal spheres, for whatever that's worth.
From a practical perspective, if you're going to build a setting about traveling to other star systems in flying ships, it helps that you can't just teleport there.
From a theoretical perspective, the crystal shell is the edge of divine creation, and represents the limit of physics, magic, and all that the gods have wrought. Other spheres have other laws of nature, magic may work by different precepts, and the gods you know on your world may not be able to answer your prayers or grant spells. Other planes may be different dimensions, but they are still part of the familiar divine order. The gods can easily communicate across planar boundaries; not so crystal spheres, which may have been created by higher powers specifically to limit the gods.
5th edition Spelljammer eliminated crystal spheres, for whatever that's worth.
From a practical perspective, if you're going to build a setting about traveling to other star systems in flying ships, it helps that you can't just teleport there.
From a theoretical perspective, the crystal shell is the edge of divine creation, and represents the limit of physics, magic, and all that the gods have wrought. Other spheres have other laws of nature, magic may work by different precepts, and the gods you know on your world may not be able to answer your prayers or grant spells. Other planes may be different dimensions, but they are still part of the familiar divine order. The gods can easily communicate across planar boundaries; not so crystal spheres, which may have been created by higher powers specifically to limit the gods.
I've not engage with Spelljammer—only learned some bits through the online Greyhawk community—and prefer, or at least have long relied on, the alternate Prime Material Plane (PMP) construct, which I think I first read in the 1e PHB.
Based on Rip's description of them, it sounds like the Spelljammer crystal spheres delimit (most of) the different campaign settings but imagine them all within the same PMP.
Thus, DMPrata, to me, you "need" to first decide whether you accept the Spelljammer premise, prefer the AD&D / 1e standard cosmology, or want to create something else for your campaign.
Regarding teleportation, perhaps IYC, the spell has been assumed to cover all distances within the PMP but actually only covers the distances bounded by Oerth?
Finally, maybe I misunderstand your mention of Dis, but to me, it being on an Outer Plane, it should be inaccessible with teleportation but instead require interplanar magic to access (e.g., a portal, gate, astral projection, etc.)
PS - Rasgon's crystal sphere description makes me think that the Far Realm is the stuff outside of or between the spheres. Did that setting, or other lore, ever relate the two ideas?
PS - Rasgon's crystal sphere description makes me think that the Far Realm is the stuff outside of or between the spheres. Did that setting, or other lore, ever relate the two ideas?
No, in part because Bruce Cordell invented the Far Realm in 1996, after the Spelljammer line was discontinued. The space between the spheres is the Phlogiston, which is a sort of chaotic rainbow ocean in which planar or dimensional travel is impossible. It's not a Lovecraftian horror dimension like the Far Realm is.
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Finally, maybe I misunderstand your mention of Dis, but to me, it being on an Outer Plane, it should be inaccessible with teleportation but instead require interplanar magic to access (e.g., a portal, gate, astral projection, etc.)
In 2nd edition, teleport without error permitted planar travel.
Thanks for the time check about Spelljammer and the Far Realm!
I didn't know that Phlogiston was impassible and apparently forgot that about teleport without error, which I see also had that capacity in 1e:
Unearthed Arcana wrote:
The spell also enables the caster to travel to other planes of existence, but any such plane is, at at best, “Studied carefully.” This assumes that the caster has, in fact, actually been to the plane and carefully perused an area so that it could later be used as a destination for teleportation without error.
IMC, I've been puzzling lately about sending, which seems to warrant a few additional restrictions (e.g., not allow interplanar sending). Now that I've looked up 1e teleport without error, I see that 1e sending was a higher level spell (5th) than it is in 5e, and that the 1e version permitted fewer words ("one word per level of experience, with articles not considered") in contrast to 5e's flat 25 words.
If I devise an alternate version, I'll post it in our 5e subforum.
Roger Moore talks to these Spelljammer/planar relationships in his Gates articles, the first from AOL in 1995, the second just printed in Visions #3 (along with a reprint of #1).
Allan. _________________ Allan Grohe<br />https://www.greyhawkonline.com/grodog/greyhawk.html<br />https://grodog.blogspot.com/
Roger Moore talks to these Spelljammer/planar relationships in his Gates articles, the first from AOL in 1995, the second just printed in Visions #3 (along with a reprint of #1).
Allan.
Thanks, Allan. That (and your related musings) is what got me reading Spelljammer in the first place. I cross-posted this topic at Dragonsfoot, and I think I’ve settled on allowing two teleports to travel from, say, Greyhawk to Waterdeep: one teleport to the outer surface of the Realmspace sphere and a second teleport through the crystal sphere to Waterdeep (with all the usual teleport risks based on familiarity).
(Aside, is anyone else no longer receiving Canonfire! topic reply notifications? I got nothing on this thread.)
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